What could possibly go wrong? [Politics]

"marshknute" (marshknute) 12/17/2019 at 11:33 • Filed to: None

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Is there anything more ironic than a bunch of freelance journalists getting fired because of the same bill they spent years championing?

California’s AB5 bill was supposed to force Uber/Lyft to treat drivers like employees instead of independen t contractors. Turns out, the bill’s definition also applies to freelance journalists. Oops. Now CA journalists are being laid off in time for the holidays.

September 2019 (From Vox): !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!!

December 2019: !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!!

In all seriousness, let’s stop pretending Uber/Lyft drivers are employees or should be entitled to the benefits/protections of salaried employees. They enjoy (nearly) all the freedoms of independent contractors. They choose their own hours, location, car, dress code, means of interacting with passengers, etc.

The only problem is the fact that the company determines the price, not the drivers . Independent contractors should be able to submit their own competitive bids, just like a typical bricklayer/tiler/millworker/etc. Instead of pushing for employee status, AB5 should have gone the other way, and instead reinforced drivers’ status as independent contractors by giving them the freedom to negotiate prices.

For Sweden > marshknute 12/17/2019 at 11:39

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Remember , freelance journalism is a threat to workers everywhere.  It must be destroyed.

JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t > marshknute 12/17/2019 at 11:43

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I half-way agree with your sentiment, if on ly because AB5 legitimizes the predatory employment practices of the so-called gig economy. Instead of saying “this is bad, and wrong, and needs to stop” it instead says “well, i guess its gonna be this way, so... Uh... I don’t know, how about we throw a bandaid on it and hope the demand for workers never outpaces the available full time jobs...” spoiler: it’s already there. Why do you think so many companies are so manager heavy? Production is already (in a relative sense) so efficient that jobs have to be invented out of thin air to give 1%er children a lader into the corporate/family treehouse... These contractors are simply going to get their hours cut/limited to keep them classified as part-timers. Workers will make even less money, companies will continue to profit off the continuing reduction of monetary flow into the workforce. Ugh. 

atfsgeoff > marshknute 12/17/2019 at 11:44

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I had considered driving for Uber, but none of my vehicles are new/expensive enough for those elitists.

nermal > marshknute 12/17/2019 at 11:45

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Can they write good about sportsing? I’ve heard that there’s a place with some job openings.....

MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s > marshknute 12/17/2019 at 11:47

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Unintended consequences are fun. 

marshknute > atfsgeoff 12/17/2019 at 11:51

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Am I the only one shocked at how quickly cars turn 10-years-old?  It seems like 2009 was just a few years ago, not a damn decade.  

atfsgeoff > marshknute 12/17/2019 at 11:54

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I’ve only ever owned one car that was less than 10 years old at the time I got it (model year 2006 that I got in late 2015). I guess I’m an automotive bottom-feeder. *shrug*

My bird IS the word > marshknute 12/17/2019 at 12:15

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I would never commend uber/lyft for giving a ton of thought to their business model

marshknute > atfsgeoff 12/17/2019 at 12:17

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I’ve owned only one new car (15' WRX). My used cars are , on average, 10.5 years old when I buy them.

fintail > JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t 12/17/2019 at 12:23

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That last bit is a big part of the real class warfare that righti st drones pine on about but are unable to understand (or more likely, deceptively unwilling to discuss with any honesty) . It’s obvious who declared war on who, and who is winning.

ttyymmnn > marshknute 12/17/2019 at 12:26

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How can they negotiate prices if they are using all the infrastructure set up by the ride shares? If it weren’t for UberLyft, they wouldn’t be working at all. 

marshknute > ttyymmnn 12/17/2019 at 12:33

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It wouldn’t be difficult to program a “submit your bid” feature into the app. It would show drivers the same information they already see before accepting a job (distance, general direction, rider’s rating, etc) and then allow drivers to name their price. Uber could always put a “suggested price” but allow drivers the discretion to raise/lower the rates as they see fit.

If they ask too high a number, customers won’t use them. If they ask too low a number, they won’t make money.  

Textured Soy Protein > marshknute 12/17/2019 at 13:09

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This is an unfortunate consequence but you are incorrect. I work in recruiting and hiring and know exactly the difference between employees and independent contractors.

Per the IRS ,

You are not an independent contractor if you perform services that can be controlled by an employer (what will be done and how it will be done). This applies even if you are given freedom of action. What matters is that the employer has the legal right to control the details of how the services are performed.

While Uber and Lyft drivers, and basically all other gig economy workers, have freedom of action in choosing which rides to accept from those services, Uber and Lyft have extensive control over what work will be done, how it will be done, and how much the drivers will be paid. 

Most so-called contractor workers in corporate environments aren’t even contractors, they are at-will employees of staffing agencies, working on site at those agencies’ clients, and they get laid off when the client no longer needs their services. But they aren’t contractors, they receive a W-2 from the staffing agency, not a 1099.

The “gig economy” is one giant con job by companies that want to expand into giant unicorn IPO valuations without making real profits, on the backs of underpaid, misclassified labor. Uber and Lyft drivers rely on Uber and Lyft as their source of income and their “freedom” does not come close to true independent contractors.

Chariotoflove > marshknute 12/17/2019 at 13:22

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Completely agree. But I’m not sure giving the drivers the responsibility of setting their own prices would be doing them a favor. If you bid on each fare as a contractor, you have to do that cost-profit analysis to find the balance between volume and profit that makes your business viable. Essentially, the driver becomes a true small business owner and has to some significant math. And in this case kind of on the fly. Many may be up for that, but I bet lots of the guys just trying to make some extra money would be happier and more successful letting the company do those calculations for them.  

Chariotoflove > atfsgeoff 12/17/2019 at 13:24

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I wonder how much of that is marketing, as in the company not wanting old rust traps running around with their stickers on them, and how much is liability associated with having modern safety features. Although 10 years doesn’t seem old at all in that respect. 

user314 > MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s 12/17/2019 at 13:33

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Maybe they can learn to code...

WiscoProud > marshknute 12/17/2019 at 13:55

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This seems completely reasonable to me. 

gmporschenut also a fan of hondas > Chariotoflove 12/17/2019 at 14:04

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You just described the shitshow of private  taxis in the 20s and 30s before medallions were implemented. Shitloads of unemployed fighting for a fare and putting themselves so to even further debt. 

ZHP Sparky, the 5th > Textured Soy Protein 12/17/2019 at 16:06

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Wow, look at that. Given the OP’s matter of fact tone you’d think he knew what the hell he was talking about! (of course he didn’t).

And as if adding a per-ride bidding system on to a rideshare app is a solution that will work in practice. Yes - it IS the solution if these companies want to keep them on as contractors, but is entirely unrealistic and the companies know it.

Textured Soy Protein > ZHP Sparky, the 5th 12/17/2019 at 16:12

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G iven the OP’s matter of fact tone you’d think he knew what the hell he was talking about! (of course he didn’t).

There’s a lot of that going around here lately.

ZHP Sparky, the 5th > Textured Soy Protein 12/17/2019 at 16:17

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Oh geez, don’t even remind me. I’m done with that anger filled bag of shitty logic. 

atfsgeoff > Chariotoflove 12/17/2019 at 20:11

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I wonder if Uber is getting any kind of donations or kickbacks from auto manufacturers for ‘encouraging’ people to buy new cars.

Chariotoflove > atfsgeoff 12/17/2019 at 20:36

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Illuminati confirmed. 

DipodomysDeserti > marshknute 12/17/2019 at 22:42

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Yeah, drunk people are going to sit there and manage a auction on their ride...0

DipodomysDeserti > marshknute 12/17/2019 at 22:44

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How can you fire a freelancer?

dogisbadob > marshknute 12/24/2019 at 12:48

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California also has a separate bill (or it might actually be part of AB5) that caps t he number of articles a freelancer can write before having to be considere d an employee.

Also, the GMG Union has a similar rule already. After a certain number of articles, they have to be offered a full-time opportunity.

Some of the Jalopnik/G-O staff talked about this on twitter

In regards to Uber, all they have to do is switch to a SaaS model. License the use of the platform for a flat monthly fee, and that’s it.

ClassicDatsunDebate > atfsgeoff 12/24/2019 at 15:59

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I can see why they have vehicle standards, including age. Not everyone is as fastidious as us oppos. I mean, I wouldn’t want Uncle Buck as my Uber.

Manwich - now Keto-Friendly > atfsgeoff 12/24/2019 at 19:12

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That’s only half the problem. The other half is they don’t compensate enough on a per-mile basis to cover all the costs (including depreciation) for the new/expensive vehicles they demand.

My impression is they want a BMW 3-series type vehicle, but compensate at Ford Focus operating cost levels.

Manwich - now Keto-Friendly > marshknute 12/24/2019 at 19:15

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“Turns out, the bill’s definition also applies to freelance journalists. Oops. Now CA journalists are being laid off in time for the holidays.”

Meh... nothing that an amendment couldn’t fix... 

atfsgeoff > Manwich - now Keto-Friendly 12/24/2019 at 19:16

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You are correct, however it’s a problem that would self-correct if people would stop driving for them. It makes no sense to take on a job that you lose money doing.

Jayvincent > marshknute 12/24/2019 at 19:43

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Basically how point to point hauling (shipping) works - you submit your bid and the buyer chooses who gets to pick up and deliver the goods. I’ m sure there’s a fee (or a percentage ) for the booking agency to cover the overhead, but the hauler sets his own bid price

Jayvincent > nermal 12/24/2019 at 19:44

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Haven’t you heard the spin on that? It’s dead...

Jayvincent > For Sweden 12/24/2019 at 19:48

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jokes on us... paid journalism is dead, whether freelanced, corporate or public service. Disinformation services, influencers and trolls are where the $$ are at. Gotta move with the times. Think of it as shorting stocks when the market goes down: you aren’t killing the economy, you are just riding the wave. Put those journalism skills to good use writing real “ fake news” and cash in!

Jayvincent > marshknute 12/24/2019 at 19:54

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I’d like to take a minute here and thank you personally @marshknute for posting a controversial political topic capable of generating more than a comment a minute return rate (31 in 27 minutes and counting) without resorting to trolling, name calling, ga slighting or snark.

This is good Oppo and if we had a post of the day award, I’d recommend you for it. Instead this Holiday gift will be delivered to you by an independent shipping contractor I hired just as soon as they finish p arsing the fine print on the contract.

For Sweden > ttyymmnn 12/24/2019 at 20:05

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Sidecar tried a model where drivers set prices. It failed.

Manwich - now Keto-Friendly > atfsgeoff 12/24/2019 at 20:44

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“You are correct, however it’s a problem that would self-correct if people would stop driving for them.”

In theory. But in reality, the problem is exactly the same problem that let to the introduction of minimum wages.

“The minimum wage was designed to create a minimum standard of living to protect the health and well-being of employees. Others have argued that the primary purpose was to aid the lowest paid of the nation’s working population, those who lacked sufficient bargaining power to secure for themselves a minimum subsistence wage.”

https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/minimum_wage  

And in reality, what someone makes driving for Uber often works out to below minimum wage. And that is technically illegal.

And note that the reason why I can easily choose *not* to drive for them is because I had 2 parents who raised me and enabled me to get post-secondary education. So I have job options.

But that’s not the case for many people.